John had a gun in 1989
Monday, 05-Jun-2000 16:22:23

John had a gun in 1989 that I saw, and I remember you being around then. But I didn't tell you about it. See what I mean about secrecy.

baba o.

Re: Re: John had a gun in 1989
Monday, 05-Jun-2000 18:06:20

What's wrong w/ having a gun? They are legal. Waving it around or aiming it at people in a drunken stupor, playing Russian Roulette. that's another story. But to imply having a gun is somehow deviant is stretching things a bit.


Waving it around or aiming it at people in a drunken stupor
Monday, 05-Jun-2000 15:23:52

well, he did do that too, according to what Chuck told me a number of years ago. But you'll have to go to San Quentin or wherever to find out for sure, and of course Chuck is a convicted felon...

I never knew till the day I was kicked out, about the nitrous, guns, the sexual abuse, PGMs, or even that some people in the work didn't believe everything he said. If I had, I would have run for the hills (I hope).

--- And thats why the secrecy is created.


PS. Waving it around or aiming it at people in a drunken stupor
Monday, 05-Jun-2000 18:26:11

I mean I did know about the one gun I saw, which John kept in his trunk, strictly legal and explainable. The whole gun trip which happened earlier I did not know about.

----Michael M. message deleted-------

Re: Re: John had a gun in 1989
Monday, 05-Jun-2000 20:54:44

Michael, John came to my house, took out his briefcase and showed me his gun, as he gave me a paranoid dissertation on the government forces out to get him. And yes, he did suggest that I buy and learn to use one if I knew what was good for me. I think he had Rodney under tow as his main man . Boy, John really knew how to play everyone's ego right where they had an opening; you know, a need to be specialized .

John had guns in the very early 80's too
Tuesday, 06-Jun-2000 03:50:36

and he did suggest that people (those he trusted) get them. I also know that once, while vert high. he said he felt an attack coming and commanded a very dear friend of mine and your wifes to shoot the next person who came through the door--and that if she said krishna's name it would be fine because the person she killed would be liberated. that woman who he told, and who came from a very non-violent background-- refused. vomited. and then a good friend, one of the IW team, walked through the door.

I'm glad you never went through that. Maybe partially because some of us spoke out along the way....

-----Michael M. message deleted--------

Re: Re: John had guns in the very early 80's too - Eeewwwww
Tuesday, 06-Jun-2000 10:14:59

Michael I have been defending you for days, and
I just can't do it anymore.

Do you realize what just happened? Someone just told you that a very good friend of yours was TOLD BY JOHN TO MURDER SOMEONE (basically at random) If you don't believe her/him say so! Don't justify it or blow it off.

I started this thread on secrecy by telling you that John had a gun. You responded by saying "at least he didn't wave it drunkenly, or point it at people." Now that it has come out that he has, you just brush it off. Take a look at the values your expressing now, that's not consistent with the principles you've been showing us.

baba oreilly

thanks for the saner response
Tuesday, 06-Jun-2000 16:17:30

I agree with you, we need more details. What I object to is the dismissiveness of your response. Its a serious allegation, although it does need to be supported before being believed.

On the other hand, I'm not inclined to dismiss it out of hand, having already heard several similar stories about that time frame. What the person said about guns being around in 1980s --that much we can be sure.


RE: guns and booze
Wednesday, 07-Jun-2000 01:04:08

The worst thing about it is the booze. If that's true it certainly precludes any use for "teaching activities" -- although using guns for "teaching activities" crosses the line in my opinion anyway.

SIDE NOTE: Richard Phillips, the alleged St Germain, and #1 disciple of John until his $$ ran out, used guns as a "teaching activity", as in Russian Roulette. This was related to me directly by 2 of his former students, who escaped several days later. Horrible. The sad thing was I felt he learned this behavior from John, as it took place within a year or 2 of the JP incidents.